After first hearing, GOAT members at odds about its validity

Days after the first hearing of Wisconsin’s version of a government efficiency committee, two members disagree on its purpose and validity.

Wisconsin Assembly Speaker Robin Vos, R-Rochester, created the Assembly Committee on Government Operations, Accountability and Transparency — or GOAT — in December. Its purpose, he told public affairs network WisconsinEye, is to expose and address inefficiency in government.

Committee members held their first meeting last Tuesday, when they heard testimony from state agencies on remote work and cybersecurity. 

Rep. Francesca Hong, D-Madison, who is the longest-serving Democrat on the GOAT committee, told WPR’s “Wisconsin Today” there is already a mechanism in place to monitor fraud and waste: the Legislative Audit Bureau.  

“I think this committee is performative at best,” she said, referring to GOAT. “I’ve been a part of multiple audit public hearings as well as audit report hearings, and I think that their office, this nonpartisan bureau, does a fantastic job.”

However, Rep. David Steffen, R-Howard, said the GOAT committee goes further than the audit bureau. 

Reps. Steffen and Hong joined “Wisconsin Today” to discuss the committee’s early days. 

The conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity. 

Kate Archer Kent: Rep. Steffen, what are your concerns with efficiency and accountability in state government?

David Steffen: There isn’t enough of it. In order for us to do our job of overseeing the state, and in particular, the $100 billion budget, it’s incredibly important that we have opportunities to look under the hood, ask questions, get information, and above all share information with the public. 

KAK: What do you mean by “look under the hood”? What does that entail?

DS: We occasionally get tips or get information on things that we do not get through the standard process, through the hearing process or through Joint Finance Committee. 

For example, the UW system has expanded its employment base by over 6,000 since 1992 and yet has an identical number of students. I want to have more information on that. How did that come to be? Why was there such an expansion with the same number of customers? 

Editor’s note: While the number of academic staff has increased from 1992 to 2023, the number of university staff and faculty has decreased, according to the audit bureau. Academic staff are defined as professional and administrative personnel other than faculty, whose duties are primarily associated with higher education institutions or their administration.

KAK: Rep. Hong, how do you envision this Assembly committee improving state government?

Francesca Hong: That’s a difficult question. We have a fantastic Legislative Audit Bureau where you can submit a secure online form or call the hotline, 1-877-FRAUD-17 [1-877-372-8317] or you can even print forms and mail it to the Legislative Audit Bureau office. 

KAK: What you’re saying here is that there are mechanisms in place to get “under the hood,” to ask hard questions, and the audit bureau is where that is happening?

FH: It is. The chairs of the committee of the Legislative Audit Bureau have the power to be able to call a public hearing on proposed audits. The audit bureau performs those audits, then makes recommendations to the agencies on improvements and efficiencies that they can make to have better outcomes.

KAK: At this moment, Rep. Steffen, it’s hard not to compare and contrast what’s happening at the federal level, as the Department of Government Efficiency has closed hundreds of federal offices and  fired thousands of federal workers. This state level committee doesn’t wield that kind of power, but what changes could happen through this committee to streamline state government?

DS: That’s to be determined. We’ve only had one hearing at this point. Part of it is asking questions that the audit bureau has not had an opportunity to ask. Like the first hearing last week was actually a follow up to a legislative audit, and so it provides an opportunity to take a report like the audits that occurred on the UW system and ask more in-depth questions, get more information.

We will not be doing some of the things that you’re seeing at the federal level. This is much more about shining the light on some of the activities, asking more questions and getting more information.

KAK: Rep. Hong, Rep. Amanda Nedweski of Pleasant Prairie chairs this government operations committee. She said during the hearing that taxpayers are demanding to know about the productivity of state employees. Is knowing more about a worker’s output and accomplishments an interest of your constituents?

FH: I have yet to hear that from constituents, both in my district and in some of my travels to smaller communities across the state. 

I’m hearing concerns about lowering costs. I am hearing concerns about fully funded public schools. I am hearing concerns about folks whose health care is in jeopardy because they may be a part of the BadgerCare program, and the Legislature has yet to expand BadgerCare. 

I’ll also mention that I am deeply concerned with accountability and mismanagement of funds, and I was concerned when it came to the Michael Gableman investigation that used up to $2 million of taxpayer money. We really don’t know what was entailed and what the outcomes were of that investigation.

KAK: Rep. Steffen, your response to constituents’ concerns about wanting more accountability?

DS: Sixty-one percent of residents want more activity that is similar to what we’re seeing at the federal level in terms of review, transparency, accountability, finding waste, fraud and abuse. 

Now, Rep. Hong represents the state government area. I could certainly see where her constituents are saying, “Hey, there’s nothing to see here. We’re doing everything perfectly. All $100 billion of your dollars are being handled appropriately, wisely.”

And I tell you what, once you get outside of that bubble in Madison, we hear a much different thing.

KAK: Rep. Hong, what did you learn from this meeting? What were your takeaways on those topics?

FH: It was very encouraging that our state agencies have been able to diversify the workforce geographically, both the Department of Public Instruction and the Department of Health Services have employees in every single county.

There have been efficiencies and cost saving measures that have come from the expansion of remote work, like lowering transportation costs of department employees having to go to sites.