Former UW-La Crosse chancellor disputes that porn videos warrant his removal as tenured faculty

Last year, Joe Gow was fired from his position as Chancellor of UW-La Crosse for making and posting online what he considers “loving, consensual and equal” sex videos with his wife.

Gow remained a tenured professor at the university after being fired as chancellor, but now his job is at risk.

“We didn’t want this kind of attention,” Gow said in a recent appearance on WPR’s “Wisconsin Today” with his wife, Carmen Wilson. “We put the videos out into the world as an experiment. We never thought they would draw as much attention as they have.”

The pair have authored two books about their journey under the pseudonyms Geri and Jay Hart. In the future, they hope to talk with a broader audience and discuss the role of free speech in their story.

“We would really like to talk to young people about sexuality and free speech: how to negotiate your sexuality with your partner, what pornography is and what it isn’t, and how it can be used in a healthy way if people would choose to do so,” Wilson said.

Gow said the choice to drudge up the controversy came from the university’s handling of the situation. “That was a choice that they made,” Gow said. “They could have avoided all this controversy if (they) wanted to.”

During the interview, Gow also discussed sex positivity and why he sees the case as a free speech issue.

The following was edited for clarity and brevity.

Rob Ferrett: Last year, you were removed as Chancellor of UW-La Crosse academic committee. A faculty committee says you should be out as a professor, too. What are you watching for now as this ultimately could go to the Board of Regents for a final decision?

Joe Gow: Well, it remains a free speech case. It’s been pretty sad to see the administration try to make it into something else. They haven’t been able to really come up with anything that’ll stick. They did get the votes from the faculty hearing committee that they wanted to move it along. I met earlier in the week with the new chancellor at UW-LaCrosse, James Beebe. According to the state statute, it’s his decision to make whether he wants to go ahead and try to fire me through the Board of Regents or to say, “Hey, enough is enough. Let’s let him teach.”

RF: People often lose their jobs because of what people view as reputational damage to the institution. Yes, you have the freedom of speech to make a sexual video and share it with others, but your employer might say, “Hang on, this guy’s a face of our institution to parents and state lawmakers.” People do lose their jobs in situations like this. Does the free speech argument fall short?

JG: I think that the Free Speech argument is very strong when it comes to a tenured faculty position. That’s why we have tenure. Faculty are supposed to challenge social mores, ask questions. 

What Carmen (Wilson) and I did was more than just make pornography. It’s kind of sad to see it dismissed that way. There’s some real ideas there about contemporary relationships, sexuality and technology. If people take the time to read the books (we wrote) they’ll see that. 

In any case, (regarding) reputational harm, I just don’t see it. I mean, enrollment for UW-LaCrosse for the fall is up. There have been some really big donations that have come in. The finances are strong. We’re not having to close programs or lay people off. People can say this causes reputational harm, but we just don’t see it. 

RF: Part of the concern here, I think, is that there’s a portion of the population who think pornography is inherently wrong for religious, moral or ethical reasons. What would you say to that portion of the state?

JG: The term pornography covers a lot of ground. It’s almost like saying “sports,” “entertainment” or “music.” There’s a lot of pornography that we would never recommend that people pay attention to. But there are some things that can be positive.

We think that depictions in our videos are very loving, consensual and equal. There’s nobody dominating anybody. There’s no violence. It’s amazing to watch just mainstream TV, how much violence there is, and that’s okay. But if you’re actually showing a loving couple engage in sexuality somehow, that’s just beyond the pale.

RF: What comes next if you lose your job? 

JG: There’s a principle here, and we think we’re in the right and the system is in the wrong. We want to contest this action. Down the road, we want to be involved in good conversations like we’re having right now.